New Camry Driver's Seat Uncomfortable

[sangfroid]

Because I've been told that my '97 Camry LE 4 with 88,000 miles needs new
engine seals (a puff of white smoke on startup in the morning, sometimes --
no signs of sludge), and that it will cost $900 - $1200 to repair, I've
looked into replacing it instead. I've driven the Accord, Passat, and
Altima, but decided that the new car I would most enjoy driving until it
craps out (perhaps prematurely again) would be another Camry. So yesterday
I rented one and drove it 500 miles to see whether I'd really like it.

The driving experience is very similar to my current Camry. Some things
have been improved, some are worse. (I'm 5'7" and the radio and A/C
controls are a long reach for me.) But the big difference, and what will
keep me from buying a new Camry unless a solution can be found, is the
driver's seat. The front passenger seat and the back seat are all
comfortable. But the driver's seat has an adjustable lumbar support that
even at its minimum setting is sticking me in the back. An aftermarket
lamb's wool seat insert helped alleviate the pressure, but I was still
feeling it at the end of the day.

I've seen comments from other people that the driver's seat in the '97 - '01
Camry didn't have enough lower back support. (For me it's comfortable.) I
think Toyota heard the complaints but went to the opposite extreme.

Does anyone know what's inside the seat there? Is it an air bladder? If
so, what would happen if you let ALL the air out? Would the seatback
collapse inward? Can anyone suggest any other solution?

As of now, it looks like the dealer will be reaching into my wallet for
another $1200. For an engine that should have lasted a lot longer.

[Car Guy]

Your problem with the white smoke is not uncommon for a car with your
mileage and year. A $1200 repair is well cheaper then another $20K for a
new car.

On the topic of seats, I can understand what you are saying. I too am 5'7",
and although I do no find any issues with reach or comfort behind the wheel,
I do admit the seats could offer more cushioning. My last car (1999 Ford
Taurus) had more cushioning. I will say that the seating position is better
on the Camry since when you adjust the height/lumbar settings, the position
is very nice.

Post by sangfroid
Because I've been told that my '97 Camry LE 4 with 88,000 miles needs new
engine seals (a puff of white smoke on startup in the morning,

sometimes --

Post by sangfroid
no signs of sludge), and that it will cost $900 - $1200 to repair, I've
looked into replacing it instead. I've driven the Accord, Passat, and
Altima, but decided that the new car I would most enjoy driving until it
craps out (perhaps prematurely again) would be another Camry. So yesterday
I rented one and drove it 500 miles to see whether I'd really like it.
The driving experience is very similar to my current Camry. Some things
have been improved, some are worse. (I'm 5'7" and the radio and A/C
controls are a long reach for me.) But the big difference, and what will
keep me from buying a new Camry unless a solution can be found, is the
driver's seat. The front passenger seat and the back seat are all
comfortable. But the driver's seat has an adjustable lumbar support that
even at its minimum setting is sticking me in the back. An aftermarket
lamb's wool seat insert helped alleviate the pressure, but I was still
feeling it at the end of the day.
I've seen comments from other people that the driver's seat in the '97 - '01
Camry didn't have enough lower back support. (For me it's comfortable.)

I

Post by sangfroid
think Toyota heard the complaints but went to the opposite extreme.
Does anyone know what's inside the seat there? Is it an air bladder? If
so, what would happen if you let ALL the air out? Would the seatback
collapse inward? Can anyone suggest any other solution?
As of now, it looks like the dealer will be reaching into my wallet for
another $1200. For an engine that should have lasted a lot longer.

[Platil]

Those leaking valve stem seals IMO, are more of a nuisance, than a problem.
My car has no sludge, and has been smoking only on startup for almost 60 K
miles, with no loss of oil between 3k changes. If you can live with it, it
should be fine for a long time.

As far as seat comfort, I agree, but in a different way. The seats on my 03
Camry SE are much more narrow, especially at the end compared to my 94.
Also, they seem short in the seat area, and cause thigh discomfort on
extended trips. Guess in order to get that larger center console, something
had to give. It seems like you sit ON, not IN the seats of this newest
generation Camry.

Post by sangfroid
Because I've been told that my '97 Camry LE 4 with 88,000 miles needs new
engine seals (a puff of white smoke on startup in the morning,

sometimes --

Post by sangfroid
no signs of sludge), and that it will cost $900 - $1200 to repair, I've
looked into replacing it instead. I've driven the Accord, Passat, and
Altima, but decided that the new car I would most enjoy driving until it
craps out (perhaps prematurely again) would be another Camry. So yesterday
I rented one and drove it 500 miles to see whether I'd really like it.
The driving experience is very similar to my current Camry. Some things
have been improved, some are worse. (I'm 5'7" and the radio and A/C
controls are a long reach for me.) But the big difference, and what will
keep me from buying a new Camry unless a solution can be found, is the
driver's seat. The front passenger seat and the back seat are all
comfortable. But the driver's seat has an adjustable lumbar support that
even at its minimum setting is sticking me in the back. An aftermarket
lamb's wool seat insert helped alleviate the pressure, but I was still
feeling it at the end of the day.
I've seen comments from other people that the driver's seat in the '97 - '01
Camry didn't have enough lower back support. (For me it's comfortable.)

I

Post by sangfroid
think Toyota heard the complaints but went to the opposite extreme.
Does anyone know what's inside the seat there? Is it an air bladder? If
so, what would happen if you let ALL the air out? Would the seatback
collapse inward? Can anyone suggest any other solution?
As of now, it looks like the dealer will be reaching into my wallet for
another $1200. For an engine that should have lasted a lot longer.

[phil]

You can buy allot of oil for $1200 (and that assumes it is even burning
enough oil to measure between changes). Maybe that psychological puff in
the morning is bothering you. I wouldn't spend $1200 due to a puff in the
morning.

Post by sangfroid
Because I've been told that my '97 Camry LE 4 with 88,000 miles needs new
engine seals (a puff of white smoke on startup in the morning,

sometimes --

Post by sangfroid
no signs of sludge), and that it will cost $900 - $1200 to repair, I've
looked into replacing it instead. I've driven the Accord, Passat, and
Altima, but decided that the new car I would most enjoy driving until it
craps out (perhaps prematurely again) would be another Camry. So yesterday
I rented one and drove it 500 miles to see whether I'd really like it.
The driving experience is very similar to my current Camry. Some things
have been improved, some are worse. (I'm 5'7" and the radio and A/C
controls are a long reach for me.) But the big difference, and what will
keep me from buying a new Camry unless a solution can be found, is the
driver's seat. The front passenger seat and the back seat are all
comfortable. But the driver's seat has an adjustable lumbar support that
even at its minimum setting is sticking me in the back. An aftermarket
lamb's wool seat insert helped alleviate the pressure, but I was still
feeling it at the end of the day.
I've seen comments from other people that the driver's seat in the '97 - '01
Camry didn't have enough lower back support. (For me it's comfortable.)

I

Post by sangfroid
think Toyota heard the complaints but went to the opposite extreme.
Does anyone know what's inside the seat there? Is it an air bladder? If
so, what would happen if you let ALL the air out? Would the seatback
collapse inward? Can anyone suggest any other solution?
As of now, it looks like the dealer will be reaching into my wallet for
another $1200. For an engine that should have lasted a lot longer.

[Philip ®]

Post by sangfroid
Because I've been told that my '97 Camry LE 4 with 88,000 miles
needs new engine seals (a puff of white smoke on startup in the
morning, sometimes -- no signs of sludge), and that it will cost
$900 - $1200 to repair, I've looked into replacing it instead.
SNIP<
As of now, it looks like the dealer will be reaching into my
wallet for another $1200. For an engine that should have lasted a
lot longer.

There is likely NO need to replace the "engine seals".... which
refers to the valve guide seals. The smoke symptoms you describe
happen to some engines a bit early and to ALL engines eventually. It
is NOT a threat to engine reliability. Now that you are aware of the
matter, keep a close eye on your oil for about a month to see just
how much (or really, how LITTLE) oil your Camry is consuming. I'll
bet you find the consumption is negligible.

Drive on with confidence.
--

~~Philip "Never let school interfere
with your education - Mark Twain"

[Wolfgang]

At $9-1200 I'd pass on the repair if it is just at start up and especially
if only sometimes. Try a slightly heavier weight oil if you are using 5w30.

As for the seats - I have an 03 SE and am quite happy with seats in it (the
charcoal fabric is a lint magnet is only complaint) --- radio controls can
be had on the steering wheel so you don't have to reach. Or get aftermarket
one with the remote fob.

[sangfroid]

Thanks for the comments.

I think I will go for the repair sooner rather than later because I'm
concerned about what it's doing to the exhaust system (yes, I know, the
catalytic converter would have to be replaced eventually anyway, but the
dealer says the smoking will accelerate the need for a new one) and for the
very low-tech reason that the car is starting to stink up my garage.

Oddly, with the seat insert yesterday that helped my lower back, my thighs
were getting sore. My thighs also got sore when I first got the '97 until I
had an auto upholsterer insert an extra pad of cushioning just below the
seat cushion fabric The extra cushioning raised up my legs relative to the
high front edge of the seat cushion. (There is no tilt adjustment on the
'97 LE seat cushion. It is permanently angled upward in a way that can cut
into your thighs.) The upholstery work, and tightening the hamstrings at
the gym, helped end the sore thigh problem.

Maybe I will test drive the Accord again, but it seemed to me that while
Honda softened the ride from earlier versions, it still had a harder ride
compared with what I'm used to. Zippier handling, yes, but with the
suburban and turnpike driving I do I seldom have the need for that. I have
heard many stories of Hondas easily exceeding 100,000 miles with no
problems. Too bad Honda isn't the one that favors soft rides and Toyota
better handling, rather than vice versa. I would love to rent an Accord and
push it for 500 miles like I did with the Camry, but no Honda dealer (at
least in the Philadelphia area) seems to rent them.

My '92 Camry LE 4 also unexpectedly crapped out in '97. At 60,000 miles,
the air vents were producing a really foul odor that smelled like the
exhaust of an old car. Except it would do it while all alone, not near any
other cars. After a few weeks of driving with the heat off, and three
mechanics, each of whom had a different suggestion, none of which worked, I
got rid of the car. I figured that was an isolated incident. Maybe it
wasn't. Even if this seal problem is normal, I would not have expected it
on a Toyota. (By the way, I never had any problems with the seats in the
'92.)

[Art Begun]

I would look hard at the Honda. A friend bought 2 used ones with tons
of mileage. Both rattle and ride better than my 2001 Avalon with 15k
miles. He bought the first one for his college bound kid but liked it
so much bought a second for himself.

The Mazda 6 is supposed to be pretty good too though I've never been
in one. My sister likes her older 626 but the backseat is horrible
(I've been there).

You might want to consider domestics. The reliability of the imports
has been going down while the domestics have been improving. I won't
say the domestics have caught up yet but the price differential for
the imports may not be worth it any more in my opinion.

Post by sangfroid
Thanks for the comments.
I think I will go for the repair sooner rather than later because I'm
concerned about what it's doing to the exhaust system (yes, I know, the
catalytic converter would have to be replaced eventually anyway, but the
dealer says the smoking will accelerate the need for a new one) and for the
very low-tech reason that the car is starting to stink up my garage.
Oddly, with the seat insert yesterday that helped my lower back, my thighs
were getting sore. My thighs also got sore when I first got the '97 until I
had an auto upholsterer insert an extra pad of cushioning just below the
seat cushion fabric The extra cushioning raised up my legs relative to the
high front edge of the seat cushion. (There is no tilt adjustment on the
'97 LE seat cushion. It is permanently angled upward in a way that can cut
into your thighs.) The upholstery work, and tightening the

hamstrings at

Post by sangfroid
the gym, helped end the sore thigh problem.
Maybe I will test drive the Accord again, but it seemed to me that while
Honda softened the ride from earlier versions, it still had a harder ride
compared with what I'm used to. Zippier handling, yes, but with the
suburban and turnpike driving I do I seldom have the need for that.

I have

Post by sangfroid
heard many stories of Hondas easily exceeding 100,000 miles with no
problems. Too bad Honda isn't the one that favors soft rides and Toyota
better handling, rather than vice versa. I would love to rent an Accord and
push it for 500 miles like I did with the Camry, but no Honda dealer (at
least in the Philadelphia area) seems to rent them.
My '92 Camry LE 4 also unexpectedly crapped out in '97. At 60,000 miles,
the air vents were producing a really foul odor that smelled like the
exhaust of an old car. Except it would do it while all alone, not near any
other cars. After a few weeks of driving with the heat off, and three
mechanics, each of whom had a different suggestion, none of which worked, I
got rid of the car. I figured that was an isolated incident. Maybe it
wasn't. Even if this seal problem is normal, I would not have

expected it

Post by sangfroid
on a Toyota. (By the way, I never had any problems with the seats in the
'92.)

[Chris Aseltine]

Post by Art Begun
You might want to consider domestics. The reliability of the imports
has been going down while the domestics have been improving. I won't
say the domestics have caught up yet but the price differential for
the imports may not be worth it any more in my opinion.

How dare you.

[DoggyDaddy]

Drive it another 100,000 miles, put the vent on inside air, or go buy a new
one and see a chiropractor. The little bit of smoke on start up or idle isn't
going to matter much in the big scheme of things.

Post by sangfroid
Thanks for the comments.
I think I will go for the repair sooner rather than later because I'm
concerned about what it's doing to the exhaust system (yes, I know, the
catalytic converter would have to be replaced eventually anyway, but the
dealer says the smoking will accelerate the need for a new one) and for the
very low-tech reason that the car is starting to stink up my garage.
Oddly, with the seat insert yesterday that helped my lower back, my thighs
were getting sore. My thighs also got sore when I first got the '97 until I
had an auto upholsterer insert an extra pad of cushioning just below the
seat cushion fabric The extra cushioning raised up my legs relative to the
high front edge of the seat cushion. (There is no tilt adjustment on the
'97 LE seat cushion. It is permanently angled upward in a way that can cut
into your thighs.) The upholstery work, and tightening the hamstrings at
the gym, helped end the sore thigh problem.
Maybe I will test drive the Accord again, but it seemed to me that while
Honda softened the ride from earlier versions, it still had a harder ride
compared with what I'm used to. Zippier handling, yes, but with the
suburban and turnpike driving I do I seldom have the need for that. I have
heard many stories of Hondas easily exceeding 100,000 miles with no
problems. Too bad Honda isn't the one that favors soft rides and Toyota
better handling, rather than vice versa. I would love to rent an Accord and
push it for 500 miles like I did with the Camry, but no Honda dealer (at
least in the Philadelphia area) seems to rent them.
My '92 Camry LE 4 also unexpectedly crapped out in '97. At 60,000 miles,
the air vents were producing a really foul odor that smelled like the
exhaust of an old car. Except it would do it while all alone, not near any
other cars. After a few weeks of driving with the heat off, and three
mechanics, each of whom had a different suggestion, none of which worked, I
got rid of the car. I figured that was an isolated incident. Maybe it
wasn't. Even if this seal problem is normal, I would not have expected it
on a Toyota. (By the way, I never had any problems with the seats in the
'92.)

[Daniel M. Dreifus]

Post by sangfroid
Because I've been told that my '97 Camry LE 4 with 88,000 miles needs new
engine seals (a puff of white smoke on startup in the morning, sometimes --
no signs of sludge), and that it will cost $900 - $1200 to repair

but decided that the new car I would most enjoy driving until it

Post by sangfroid
craps out (perhaps prematurely again) would be another Camry.
As of now, it looks like the dealer will be reaching into my wallet for
another $1200. For an engine that should have lasted a lot longer.

Your engine will last a lot longer.

Personally, I don't like to have dealer or other mechanics do anything
to my car, so we're approaching the problem from different directions.
Around the same mileage with a four cylinder Camry, I too began to
experience the puff of smoke on startup.
I was able to eliminate the smoke on startup, and now 30,000 miles
later it is still completely gone.
You need to be able to change the oil however.

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=Dreifus+smoke+auto-rx+group:alt.autos.toyota.camry&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&group=alt.autos.toyota.camry&selm=c5ef7dc0.0308120656.304674cd%40posting.google.com&rnum=1

So if the only reason for changing cars is the smoke on startup, this
can resolve your problem for under $100, plus it may help your engine
keep on going somewhere past triple your current mileage (ie. 250,000
miles).

[badgolferman]

Post by sangfroid
Because I've been told that my '97 Camry LE 4 with 88,000 miles needs
new engine seals (a puff of white smoke on startup in the morning,
sometimes -- no signs of sludge), and that it will cost $900 - $1200
to repair, I've looked into replacing it instead.

My 1994 started blowing smoke in the morning around 80,000 miles. After
a similar quote as yours from 3 different places I replaced the PCV
valve and it now has 150,000 miles with no smoke since then.

My 1997 started blowing smoke when I bought it from the dealer with
60,000 miles. They replaced rings and valve stem seals at their own
expense, but now with 80,000 miles on it I have found oil in the air
filter housing. I replaced the PCV valve in this car yesterday, hoping
it will cure this problem.

I don't know anything about the new Camrys, but a few things I've seen I
don't like. The big one is the exhaust pipe hanging far below anything
else and making the car look ugly from behind. The other thing is how
much it looks like a late model Taurus from front.

Perhaps you should look a little closer at the Altima. Toyota lovers
here will blast me for that, but I have owned two Nissans and two
Toyotas. Other than the refinement of the Toyotas, the maintenance
costs of them has been similar. Three of my neighbors have Altimas and
love them, and several other neighbors have other new models of Nissan
they are well pleased with.

[Art Begun]

Finally someone else thinks the Camry looks like a Taurus from the
front.

My sister-in-law traded in a old Q45 for a new Maxima because she got
tired of paying ridiculous sums of money to her Infinity dealer, but
is a bit disappointed. Just feels light duty compared to the old Q45.

Post by badgolferman

Post by sangfroid
Because I've been told that my '97 Camry LE 4 with 88,000 miles needs
new engine seals (a puff of white smoke on startup in the morning,
sometimes -- no signs of sludge), and that it will cost $900 - $1200
to repair, I've looked into replacing it instead.

My 1994 started blowing smoke in the morning around 80,000 miles.

After

Post by badgolferman
a similar quote as yours from 3 different places I replaced the PCV
valve and it now has 150,000 miles with no smoke since then.
My 1997 started blowing smoke when I bought it from the dealer with
60,000 miles. They replaced rings and valve stem seals at their own
expense, but now with 80,000 miles on it I have found oil in the air
filter housing. I replaced the PCV valve in this car yesterday, hoping
it will cure this problem.
I don't know anything about the new Camrys, but a few things I've seen I
don't like. The big one is the exhaust pipe hanging far below

anything

Post by badgolferman
else and making the car look ugly from behind. The other thing is how
much it looks like a late model Taurus from front.
Perhaps you should look a little closer at the Altima. Toyota

lovers

Post by badgolferman
here will blast me for that, but I have owned two Nissans and two
Toyotas. Other than the refinement of the Toyotas, the maintenance
costs of them has been similar. Three of my neighbors have Altimas and
love them, and several other neighbors have other new models of Nissan
they are well pleased with.

[J Stutzmann]

Which Camry did you test drive?

I'm 5'7" and recently bought a 2004 Camry XLE with all kind of gizmo's to
adjust the seat. I've put about 1300 miles on it in the last week and a
half and am pretty happy with the comfort of the seats.

Post by sangfroid
Because I've been told that my '97 Camry LE 4 with 88,000 miles needs new
engine seals (a puff of white smoke on startup in the morning,

sometimes --

Post by sangfroid
no signs of sludge), and that it will cost $900 - $1200 to repair, I've
looked into replacing it instead. I've driven the Accord, Passat, and
Altima, but decided that the new car I would most enjoy driving until it
craps out (perhaps prematurely again) would be another Camry. So yesterday
I rented one and drove it 500 miles to see whether I'd really like it.
The driving experience is very similar to my current Camry. Some things
have been improved, some are worse. (I'm 5'7" and the radio and A/C
controls are a long reach for me.) But the big difference, and what will
keep me from buying a new Camry unless a solution can be found, is the
driver's seat. The front passenger seat and the back seat are all
comfortable. But the driver's seat has an adjustable lumbar support that
even at its minimum setting is sticking me in the back. An aftermarket
lamb's wool seat insert helped alleviate the pressure, but I was still
feeling it at the end of the day.
I've seen comments from other people that the driver's seat in the '97 - '01
Camry didn't have enough lower back support. (For me it's comfortable.)

I

Post by sangfroid
think Toyota heard the complaints but went to the opposite extreme.
Does anyone know what's inside the seat there? Is it an air bladder? If
so, what would happen if you let ALL the air out? Would the seatback
collapse inward? Can anyone suggest any other solution?
As of now, it looks like the dealer will be reaching into my wallet for
another $1200. For an engine that should have lasted a lot longer.

[Car Guy]

I wanted to get the XLE V6 but didn't want to spend about $6K more for the
toys. I ended up getting the LE V6 and its just fine.

Post by J Stutzmann
Which Camry did you test drive?
I'm 5'7" and recently bought a 2004 Camry XLE with all kind of gizmo's to
adjust the seat. I've put about 1300 miles on it in the last week and a
half and am pretty happy with the comfort of the seats.

Post by sangfroid
Because I've been told that my '97 Camry LE 4 with 88,000 miles needs new
engine seals (a puff of white smoke on startup in the morning,

sometimes --

Post by sangfroid
no signs of sludge), and that it will cost $900 - $1200 to repair, I've
looked into replacing it instead. I've driven the Accord, Passat, and
Altima, but decided that the new car I would most enjoy driving until it
craps out (perhaps prematurely again) would be another Camry. So

yesterday

Post by sangfroid
I rented one and drove it 500 miles to see whether I'd really like it.
The driving experience is very similar to my current Camry. Some things
have been improved, some are worse. (I'm 5'7" and the radio and A/C
controls are a long reach for me.) But the big difference, and what will
keep me from buying a new Camry unless a solution can be found, is the
driver's seat. The front passenger seat and the back seat are all
comfortable. But the driver's seat has an adjustable lumbar support that
even at its minimum setting is sticking me in the back. An aftermarket
lamb's wool seat insert helped alleviate the pressure, but I was still
feeling it at the end of the day.
I've seen comments from other people that the driver's seat in the '97 -

'01

Post by sangfroid
Camry didn't have enough lower back support. (For me it's comfortable.)

I

Post by sangfroid
think Toyota heard the complaints but went to the opposite extreme.
Does anyone know what's inside the seat there? Is it an air bladder?

If

Post by J Stutzmann

Post by sangfroid
so, what would happen if you let ALL the air out? Would the seatback
collapse inward? Can anyone suggest any other solution?
As of now, it looks like the dealer will be reaching into my wallet for
another $1200. For an engine that should have lasted a lot longer.

[sangfroid]

I test drove the XLE 4 but on Saturday rented the LE 4. If I bought a new
one, I'd go for the XLE 4. I noticed the lower back pressure during the
brief test drive and during the 500-mile marathon. I'm pretty sure both
versions have the same seat. The LE I rented had a power adjustable lumbar
support. It just wasn't adjustable enough.

Yes, it's ugly, especially from the back. But that wouldn't keep me from
buying one.

I test drove the Altima. The seat was comfortable, but it had a choppy
ride. I also test drove the Mazda 6 tonight and liked it. The 4 is
powerful and it handled well. The seat was very firm but no bulges in
strange places, so it didn't bother me. The ride is firmer than the Camry's
but not choppy.

The major downside is that the car just seems kind of small and cramped.
Also, the wing bolsters in the driver's seat keep you in place, but they
result in a relatively narrow channel side to side for your butt and legs.
And I'm no widebody.

The car performs well, but it't not serene. In my Camry I've taken four
cross-country trips now (Philadelphia to Seattle, Tucson, Salt Lake,
Yellowstone). On the way out and back it's always 600 miles a day, 10 hours
a day with stops. I'm not finished, either. The next destination will be
Las Vegas. With its ride and room, the Camry makes that kind of trip
possible. So I was thinking: would I look forward to taking such a trip in
a Mazda 6? And even though I enjoyed driving it, I had to answer: probably
not.

I will keep the Camry, repaired or not. And I will review my records to see
if the dealer has ever replaced the PCV valve.

[J Stutzmann]

If your going to consider the XLE and you do a lot of driving I'd think
about the V6 with the option of Side Curtin air bags and Vehicle Stability
Control. [you can get side curtins on the 4's but not VSC] I found I could
get a Camry XLE V6 for about the same as an Accord EX V6 with comparable
equipment plus VSC on the Camry. The Camry has a little more interior room
and I can definately cram more stuff into the trunk. I've been driving it
back and forth to West Lafayette [Purdue vs Northwestern and Purdue vs Iowa]
& Indianapolis from Springfield IL for these past two weeks. Rides like a
dream IMHO.

Post by sangfroid
I test drove the XLE 4 but on Saturday rented the LE 4. If I bought a new
one, I'd go for the XLE 4. I noticed the lower back pressure during the
brief test drive and during the 500-mile marathon. I'm pretty sure both
versions have the same seat. The LE I rented had a power adjustable lumbar
support. It just wasn't adjustable enough.
Yes, it's ugly, especially from the back. But that wouldn't keep me from
buying one.
I test drove the Altima. The seat was comfortable, but it had a choppy
ride. I also test drove the Mazda 6 tonight and liked it. The 4 is
powerful and it handled well. The seat was very firm but no bulges in
strange places, so it didn't bother me. The ride is firmer than the Camry's
but not choppy.
The major downside is that the car just seems kind of small and cramped.
Also, the wing bolsters in the driver's seat keep you in place, but they
result in a relatively narrow channel side to side for your butt and legs.
And I'm no widebody.
The car performs well, but it't not serene. In my Camry I've taken four
cross-country trips now (Philadelphia to Seattle, Tucson, Salt Lake,
Yellowstone). On the way out and back it's always 600 miles a day, 10 hours
a day with stops. I'm not finished, either. The next destination will be
Las Vegas. With its ride and room, the Camry makes that kind of trip
possible. So I was thinking: would I look forward to taking such a trip in
a Mazda 6? And even though I enjoyed driving it, I had to answer: probably
not.
I will keep the Camry, repaired or not. And I will review my records to see
if the dealer has ever replaced the PCV valve.

[Car Guy]

Actually if you play around with the settings of the chair, you can find a
good comfort zone. Here is what I did:

- lower the chair to the lowest setting
- move the chair 1 turn up to level the chair
- move the chair forward till your reach of the steering and foot controls
are good
- adjust the back of the chair till you sit upright and not slumped in
- adjust the lumbar support till the lower back support touches but not
presses against the back

If you try this, you will find the seats to be pretty comfy.

Post by sangfroid
Because I've been told that my '97 Camry LE 4 with 88,000 miles needs new
engine seals (a puff of white smoke on startup in the morning,

sometimes --

Post by sangfroid
no signs of sludge), and that it will cost $900 - $1200 to repair, I've
looked into replacing it instead. I've driven the Accord, Passat, and
Altima, but decided that the new car I would most enjoy driving until it
craps out (perhaps prematurely again) would be another Camry. So yesterday
I rented one and drove it 500 miles to see whether I'd really like it.
The driving experience is very similar to my current Camry. Some things
have been improved, some are worse. (I'm 5'7" and the radio and A/C
controls are a long reach for me.) But the big difference, and what will
keep me from buying a new Camry unless a solution can be found, is the
driver's seat. The front passenger seat and the back seat are all
comfortable. But the driver's seat has an adjustable lumbar support that
even at its minimum setting is sticking me in the back. An aftermarket
lamb's wool seat insert helped alleviate the pressure, but I was still
feeling it at the end of the day.
I've seen comments from other people that the driver's seat in the '97 - '01
Camry didn't have enough lower back support. (For me it's comfortable.)

I

Post by sangfroid
think Toyota heard the complaints but went to the opposite extreme.
Does anyone know what's inside the seat there? Is it an air bladder? If
so, what would happen if you let ALL the air out? Would the seatback
collapse inward? Can anyone suggest any other solution?
As of now, it looks like the dealer will be reaching into my wallet for
another $1200. For an engine that should have lasted a lot longer.

[ROBMURR]

My 97 started to have that puff of smoke
on startup at around 80,000 miles.
I switched to some of the higher mileage
oils that contain an additive to swell the
rubber seals a bit. Worked fine, now
passing the 170,000 mile mark with
no oil use between changes...

[Art Begun]

Some acutally are just thickeners so the oil doesn't pass thru the
weak seal. Not a good idea for some engines.

Post by ROBMURR
My 97 started to have that puff of smoke
on startup at around 80,000 miles.
I switched to some of the higher mileage
oils that contain an additive to swell the
rubber seals a bit. Worked fine, now
passing the 170,000 mile mark with
no oil use between changes...

[s***@gmail.com]

I purchased a 2017 Camry LE with under 3000 miles a few weeks ago and have had nothing but backaches since driving it. I owned a 2003 Camry which I had to give up because of expensive repairs, but now I wish I'd kept it. I called Toyota to discuss the problem seats and told them that online I've run into dozens of other complaints from people about Toyota seats, but they ignored me with a "there's nothing we can do" attitude. I feel I need to sell the car and get one with a better design for bad backs.

[Sharx335]

Post by s***@gmail.com
I purchased a 2017 Camry LE with under 3000 miles a few weeks ago and have had nothing but backaches since driving it. I owned a 2003 Camry which I had to give up because of expensive repairs, but now I wish I'd kept it. I called Toyota to discuss the problem seats and told them that online I've run into dozens of other complaints from people about Toyota seats, but they ignored me with a "there's nothing we can do" attitude. I feel I need to sell the car and get one with a better design for bad backs.

Hmm. I've had a 2017 Camry LE for about 18 months. Does yours have the
power driver's seat?  Mine does as I was able to buy the LE with the
package cheaper than the LE without the package. I find that with the
power seat, aside from the usual updown, forwardbackward, tiltnottilt
adjustments, there is also a "lumbar adjustment". That made all the
difference--once I got that lumbar/lower back adjust right, no problems
re back ache.